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“Mwa mwa mwaaaa.”
“Yes, I know a nice English Bitter goes really well with fish and chips.”
“Mwaa mwa mwa mwa mwaaa.”
“I don’t care what Craft Beer Chef Brute has to say.”
“Mwa mwaaaaaaa.”
“Thanks for the suggestion, Johnny Jack, but bring me a stout with my fish and chips like I asked.”
I’m going to be blunt with you, me brutes. If it ever comes down to a waiter acting snobby because I didn’t order the right type of beer to go with whatever food I ordered, I’m going to go spare. I know that there are certain guidelines, but in all honesty, I could give a llama’s rump less.
If you want to follow the crowd and make sure you order your beer so it goes with your veal cutlet supreme, you go right ahead. Then you’ll have the knowledge of what it feels like to be a wine snob, too.
I’ll lay my views out for you.
I want to have great beer at restaurants. I may not buy it if it’s horribly expensive, but it is nice to have the option.
I want waiters and waitresses and to have the knowledge of what beer style “typically” goes with what food type. It would help promote beer as an equal to wine. It would also help those new to the craft beer scene get started.
I want restaurant managers and owners to treat beer like it’s upscale. Some of it is. Give it some respect.
What I don’t want, though, is for someone to look down their hooked nose at me because I ordered an imperial pale ale with my vindaloo. Maybe I like my mouth blistering hot and jumbled from the tastes.
I know barleywines are a great desert beer, but if I want one with my pepperoni, sausage, mushroom, pineapple, and anchovy pizza, then by Lugh, I’ll have it with my pepperoni and something something something pizza.
The one thing that has crossed most boundaries in my research into both cooking with beer and pairing foods with beer (and I’ve done an awful lot of it, Johnny Jack. I may not be the best home brewer or beer judge, but I’ve done more research, general cooking, general brewing, and combinations than most), is that you drink what you want while you eat what you want.
Not every combination will lead to the perfect match. If I’m drinking the beer I’m in the mood for, though, and eating the food I’ve been hankering for, then I’m a happy brute. That’s the wonderful thing about beer, its versatility.
And any Johnny Jack who insists that I’m pairing things wrong can see what beer goes best with a helping of “shut the Purgatory up” or he can foot my dinner bill.
Until next time, ya brutes, drink what thou wilt. That is the whole of the art.
No, I totally think you read way too much into what he wrote. Take it for what was written (instead of taking it personally) and I think you have to agree with his points too. Both of you are correct, in my opinion.
Get ready for comments and points of view that differ from yours, especially if you're going to continue to write a blog on the innerwebz.
I have no problem with disagreement. There have been plenty of opposing viewpoints here that I haven't stressed about... there's just a difference in tone.
Seems the few of you who know Rich fairly well are telling me I'm reading too much into it. That's possible. The thing is, we don't know each other... I'm very careful in how I word stuff to people that don't know me well enough to understand how I get my POV across.
And we do both have valid view points. It wasn't what he said.. it was the way... damn innerwebz and it's ability to communicate without any body and facial expressions...
Again, no stress on my part. I'm not expecting either of us to apologize, but I'm willing to not let this color future conversations/posts/correspondances.
Thanks, Al.
Get ready for comments and points of view that differ from yours, especially if you're going to continue to write a blog on the innerwebz.
Wow James, Rich's comment really threw you off there...didn't read into it as much as you did, but as you said, you're an ass...
The problem comes from Rich being a professional writer (it may not be his main occupation, but he is paid to write for the paper and is our states' foremost beer blogger).
As such, he knows the value of words and how to convey theme and emotion in them. Being a paid writer as well (newspaper and sci-fi), I tend to look at the words used and their context. Had Rich meant no disrespect, he would have refrained from his laissez-faire comment (or at least the edge it was presented in). I will give him that if he meant complete disrespect, he wouldn't have given his intro blurb. Without that, I would've posted my first reaction instead of toning it down. (Yes, the posting I sent through was after some meditation.)
So either Rich meant to snub me or he didn't consider the overall arc (I know he is a writer, I am a writer, hence I dig into meanings). Either way, had he chimed back in either saying that I was wrong in my interpretation or that he is apologetic for the wording, I would take yours and Travis' thoughts closer to heart. (Either option says the same thing, but with different sides of whose wrong.)
Since he decided to stay completely quiet, I find it apparent that he did mean it in such a manner, but wasn't expecting me to defend myself (at all or in such a vigorous manner).
I really have no problem with letting bygones be bygones. I just don't believe in it being one sided.
And I'm only an ass when I'm pissed off, which is fairly hard to do.
"peeeeple ahsk me all da time, do ya drink white wine wit chicken and red wine wit beef, I tell 'em I drink what I like"
Couldn't agree more.
James, I don't need to read all your posts to know that you are an exemplar advocate of craft beer. I don't know anyone else who offers to pick up anything for anyone when traveling somewhere. Keep the attitude and keep the open mind. I like to think I am open-minded about beer as well. Hell I had Three Dos Equis the other night because that's what our friends brought over on an impromptu visit. I could have raided my cellar, or tried to force my homebrew on them, but instead we sat on the patio and had good conversation and I didn't even give it a second thought.
Incidentally what would you guys pair with crow?
I'd definitely say you're open minded, Andy. Most of us are. Great call, IMO, on drinking the Dos Equis, too. Made them feel at home and that their gift was welcome. Besides, it could've been much worse.
Brutal Bitter.
Awesome answer!
I think at this point we need to focus on getting establishments to offer good beer, and servers knowledgable enough to make a pairing recomendation before we get upset about a server being snobbish if you choose not to accept their recomendation.
You're doing a great job of advocating craft beer, Travis. I'm helping in my own way... beer snobs are going to turn a lot of people off from craft beer. I've gotten several friends who are macro drinkers to try something much better. Some of them like craft beer, some stick with macro. The thing is, I know these guys, and if I would've belittled them in any way, they wouldn't have ever given it a fair shot after that.
Along the road to craft beer nerdvana, there will be bumps. Having snobs is my pet peeve that I'd like to help out with. Beer geeks have the ability to spread the word. Beer snobs, be they servers, brewers, or enthusiasts, can do a lot of harm.
It should be obvious from my exagerated writing style that I'm intentionally pushing things, although I am not calling anyone specifically out. It's my way of showing how certain aspects of our culture could be intimidating or come across as demeaning/belittling to those not already here with us.
We all know stubborn people. Don't give them a chance to use a beer snob as an excuse to not try great beer. Be a beer geek and get them to try it... then they can decide on their own.
Incidentally what would you guys pair with crow?
I thank you for your awesome etiquette, gentlemen.
Travis, my gosh I agree 100%. This things totally smacks of Beer Advocate!
Dave, you seem to be on a BA bashing kick. Not treating you right?
James, your original post is almost a contradiction. I'm not aware of the incident that prompted your rant, but it seems like you want educated servers while at the same time they keep their opinions (based on their education) to themselves.
Andy, there is no contradiction. The basic theme in all of my threads is attitude. Come to me with a decent attitude, but don't be upset when I do something "against the grain." Start with a snotty/snobby attitude and you'll lose me right away; end up with one because I don't take your opinion and it'll also lose me; be receptive to me and I'll be receptive to you.
Not that I expect you to, but if you read through them all you'll see I'm a here advocate of craft beer. I'm just also a huge advocate of keeping an open mind and appreciating not everyone is at the same level of beer-geekery.
Agree 100% that the customer should get what he/she wants, but if the server is supposed to know what beer pairs best with what food (for your convenience) then pointing out that you have ordered a not so great pairing is part of that. I guess the best case scenario would be the customer agreeing that it's not ideal but personal tastes will prevail.
Again, order what you want (as I will) and demand it if you have to, but to me it's a trade off. If you want educated servers, expect to deal with their suggestions.
Cheers!
Andy
Last Updated (Tuesday, 01 June 2010 19:33)